It's simple. To him, you're just a bunch of people and you're not a good person. That's all there is to it.

　Gandalf's statement is unbelievable to the ears.

　Is there such a decisive rupture between the ancient magical civilization and the people of today's earth?

　I resisted the urge to raise my voice to ask questions and waited for Gandalf to continue.

　And the others seemed to have come to the same conclusion, and none of us in the room tried to say anything meaningful besides our unintentional overflowing reactions.

For some time after the intelligent beings had gone underground, the dungeons had been able to keep in touch by magical means and discuss solutions to the problems they were facing. One of the most serious of these was the chronic human population decline.
I'm sure you've been around for a while by Elven standards, but by human standards, you've gone through several generational changes. I'm not sure how to maintain civilization in the limited underground space we have.
That's mostly true. Most of the dungeons were built with technology not even close to that of Alfazul, and the equilibrium was prematurely broken, allowing the ...... wisdomless demons to flourish. There were many causes for the decline in population, but the biggest one was that.

　This is probably the reason why the dungeons we know have become a den of demons.

　As the number of demons continues to increase in a closed space from which there is no escape or expansion, the people living there are being driven out and their numbers are decreasing - a scene that is easy to imagine.

Many dungeons tried to raise the population by using the 'A' technique, but Ivaldi detested this. Of course, the Ark of the Elements had no such deficiencies, but ...... the mental fragility of the human species could not be helped.

　Gandalf gave a small shake of his head.

　The emotion in it was neither sadness nor pity, but rather contempt.

'Civil war. This was after Fraxinus had given up his position as Demon King and moved to the second level. The humans of the third level fought each other for trivial reasons, and one of the forces, realizing the disadvantage, unleashed a deadly sickness in an attempt to get their way.

　Humans who had lived for generations in a limited underground space.

　I couldn't imagine what their state of mind had become this time.

　Or were their minds driven to the point where they couldn't even think straight?

　Either way, that one incident must have caused Gandalf to look down harder on the human race.

I have decided that I don't care if the humans in this dungeon become extinct, as long as we can avoid harming other species. But Ivaldi never stopped trying to save our species and eventually lost his mind.

　The large audience room was ever so silent in a circle.

　The sound of Garnett's breathing, right next to him, was so clear that he could hear it in his ears.

'Ivaldi is an excellent blacksmith and mechanical engineer. However, that's why he was unskilled in the art of saving the bodies of disease-poisoned creatures. In the end, the means he took was to 'redefine humanity'.
Redefine it?
'Right. You could also describe it as a shift in perspective of what state of affairs can be said to have 'saved' you.

　As I watched the exchange between His Majesty Alfred and the Demon King Gandalf, I felt a bad premonition swelling in my heart.

''The remainder of the group thought that the humans had been destroyed, and as soon as we finished detoxifying the disease poison, we re-developed the third level as a hierarchy for the demon race. In the meantime, Ivaldi repeated his research without a sideways glance, but I didn't take an interest in it and threw it away - now that I think about it, that was the biggest mistake I made.

　His Majesty Alfred raised one eyebrow and lightly hurried Gandalf, who did not want to cut to the heart of the matter.

''Don't be so wasteful. How does the Demon King Ivaldi redefine human beings?
...... soul. He gave up trying to save his disease-poisoned body, defining the soul as the core of man, and devoted himself to the preservation of the soul and personality.

　Garnett once abused Agart Ram's autonomous puppet as a human modus operandi.

　The automaton's rebuttal to that - 'Which one is the Modoki?' - was.

Ivaldi engineered new bodies and transferred the souls of dying humans to them. Abandoning their original bodies, the ancient magical civilizations chose to exist solely on their souls ...... and that is exactly what the puppets that make up Agat Ram are.

　--Are you saying they were people?
　No, they weren't. No, but.

　I'm not sure if that's true or not, but the feeling of incredulity and the conviction that this is what happened are clashing in my blood-stained head and disturbing my thoughts.

　But the example of how to replace the body and survive is right now standing proudly in front of us.

　Although there is a difference in whether the new body is based on the body of one's own people or an artificially created doll, there is no difference in the fundamental principle.

If you tell me this much, you can understand why they can be a threat to you.
We are the descendants of the human race, the descendants of those who were able to restore the population by means of a single hand. Ivaldi detests that method, and for that reason he does not recognize us as legitimate human beings, and he even considers us enemies.
"Agat Ram is not as numerous as you. You can replace the body as much as you like, but the number of souls you need is finite. He's been trying to keep his voice down and his activities under the radar.

　There's no contradiction in what Gandalf tells us - except that it's mind-bogglingly above common sense, and should be taken as important information.

　The way the puppet body is continually replaced to hold on to life, or perhaps we can call it pseudo-immortality, is unlikely to be able to increase the number of heads unless there is a way to increase the number of souls (...) or (...).

　If they intend to make an enemy of the Westland Kingdom, which has a huge population, they will want to avoid attacking it head-on with a straightforward attack.

They are very good at hiding their own movements. "They are so good at hiding their own movements that we didn't even realize the rebellious intentions of Ivaldi and the transformation of the humans until the moment they exploited our ground invasion.
"Why did Eivaldi and Agart Ram attack you and your people?
I don't know. We didn't have time to have a heart-to-heart talk. My guess is that you're planning to turn the third level of the hierarchy into a human-only one.

　You must admit that Gandalf is a big shot, as far as being able to say 'I don't understand' without changing his face.

I'm not going to be able to say that I'm not going to be able to do anything about it, but I'm not going to be able to say that I'm not going to be able to do anything about it. That is a man who would never overturn a decision to do something.
It's the ultimate in dwarven single-mindedness and stubbornness. I'm sure you'll find a lot of dark moves on the ground are long term preparations in anticipation of future offensives. ...... Hmm, that certainly makes sense.

　Next to me, Garnett's clenched fists are shaking in small circles.

　...... I casually writhed and hunched over Garnett, gently laying my hand on Garnett's fist, hiding my body and my hand with the size of my heat-resistant equipment.

　Garnett's expression was still hard, but the fist that was still shatteringly clenched loosened a bit.

'But the question still remains,'
I forgive you. I will answer to you myself.

　The two champions are exchanging words with each other, and neither of us or the demon generals can find the time to break into the space between them.

You have to have a clear idea of what the Demon King Ivaldi hates," he said. I can't decide to join forces with you if I don't know the reason why Ivaldi has come to hate us: ......